Last In, First Out is something we hear when talking lay-offs. If you were one of the last teachers hired, you'll be the first ones asked to go. What about performance? WOW! What a concept I know. But don't we all know some teachers that stay and survive the "pink slip" year after year because they have that thing called "seniority?" Yes, we do. Sadly, there are teachers in our school who are sour, and more interested in drama and politics than the students. Those are likely the ones there a long time, the ones in many cases who NEED TO GO! Do you know one of these?
Surely I will be the first to say I know MANY, MANY lovely veteran teachers with oodles of experience and years of structured know how that benefits students every year, but there are those.... I hate that they "get to stay" simply due to their seniority.
New York has another idea... see this article for a new approach that I wish we could attempt here. But imagine, if we wanted to deal with teachers on a "performance" measure vs. seniority, I'm certain there would be some sort of war declared.
But there, I said it, there are some teachers who need to go.
After what I've seen at my own school this year, I will be hard pressed to ever stand shoulder to shoulder with teachers in support of their "rights." What about the rights of my student(s) to have happy, focused teachers? What about a school community free from political drama and infighting? What ever happened to working together, team work, community?
We don't talk about it because we don't want to discredit our schools, bring disrespect to the teachers who do a great job every day, or create a hostile environment for our students. So we stay quiet... sad but true.
What are your thoughts? Certainly not all brand new teachers are automatically bright and wonderful either? Some say it would allow the districts to lay off more senior teachers because they cost more. I don't advocate that either, but there must be a better way. Arizona abolished seniority rules, so maybe we should take a closer look at how that's going. I'll admit, I've only begun the research...
Ok, so from the article:
“Nobody I’ve talked to thinks seniority is a rational way to go,” Mr. Klein said. “Obviously there are some senior teachers who are extraordinary. You recruit young talent you think is good for the future, and to just get rid of that by the numbers seems to me to be a nonsensical approach.”
Get rid of the old fogies first. They are just taking up valuable oxygen from the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteAs a parent, I do hope that principals take their job of evaluations seriously and appropriatly. I don't want principals being dictators nor do I want principals pushovers. I want accurate and honest evaluations of the teachers. I want the principals to own the evaluation process and work to either get coaching for the teacher so that he or she can improve, or to begin the process of removing the teacher - if this is really what is best. I believe that this is a case of 95% of the MDUSD teachers are good at what they do, but boy those other 5% can sure test our patience and discourage our children.
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ReplyDeleteok, had to re-write this, made no sense:
ReplyDeleteI also hope Sherry that as a board you (as a board or district) DO NOT move around principals without looking at the other issues within schools.
In at least some instances the problems aren't "only" the principal as teachers would have some believe. Sometimes they are them (the problems that is). Some teachers just aren't fit for teaching and want to blame administration, but when there is a long history of problems and a core group remain the same, it certainly warrants a closer look.
I think that there are a number of principals in our district that do not take evaluations seriously and do not do enough to get rid of those teachers and other staff that are not doing there job or causing problems at our schools. I know at my son'sschool there have been numerous complaints about certian teachers and coaches for years and the principal does nothing. It seems that these teachers and coaches are protected by either their union or pressure from outside interests and they stay on year after year. It's just not acceptable. If your a teacher, coach, or other staff member and you humiliate students and parents year after year you should be gone!
ReplyDeleteThe principals just want to protect the old people. The young ones with new ideas and methods always get the shaft. Too bad we can't just make a rule where if you're over 40 you're out.
ReplyDeleteSome Principals just like to keep the peace, and are better when things are good. But when you have discontent amongst the teachers at your school, and you have to play the bad guy - it's not so easy.
ReplyDeleteOnce a teacher is tenured (which takes only two years), it is very difficult for that teacher to be dismissed short of the individual actually breaking a law.
ReplyDeletePrincipals do take the evaluation process seriously and do refer poor performers to the Peer Assistance and Review program--though I don't believe a veteran teacher can be forced to work with a coach. The evaluation process is proscribed in the teachers union contract, limiting principals in the areas they may assess and in the frequency of the assessments. Every teacher is not evaluated every year.
Teachers who receive "Needs Improvement" in one or more areas of their evaluations often turn to their teachers union leadership to help them contest the report. Over the past 8 years in MDUSD the union leadership has put its energy into challenging principals and other administrators rather than in assuring that ineffective teachers are removed from the classroom.
Until the teachers union leadership agrees that some tenured teachers are not serving children well, this situation will continue. And administrators, not teachers, will be held accountable, as shown by Ms. Whitmarsh's comments.
Until the teaching profession operates like corporate America, where you are out if you perform poorly, teachers will never get the respect they demand.
ReplyDeleteThe teacher's union is a corrupt institution, probably criminally so. Any member of the CTA should be thrown in jail in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteTeachers, who put their politics and pride first, and above students, then have their union rep come in and fight their battles should be ashamed. Certain teachers would know exactly that I'm talking about them. I hope you all get out of teaching. I hope there is a way to transfer teachers out of schools when they show how truly miserable they are. Miserable human beings make miserable teachers and make a school community miserable.
ReplyDeleteOnce again...this is what happens when the Unions are allowed to "run" the school district. There are definately teachers at our elementary school that should have been long gone and still they continue to "teach". I don't think senority should have anything to do with it...performance should!!
ReplyDeleteLast year my son had a teacher that was fairly new. Because of the layoff last year, she was out. I can't tell you how happy I am that she is.
ReplyDeleteShe was just 2-3 years into teaching and terrible at it.
I feel sorry for any kids that have her in the future no matter what school she is lucky enough to find a job at.
I am one of the "old fogies" and I am offended that people assume that this means I am taking up valuable oxygen from younger teachers. I don't think this is how most parents, children, or other teachers feel about me. But never mind, I am FED UP with the lack of support for teachers in this district and am going to retire, which most folks tell me is a great loss to the children.
ReplyDeleteIt is too bad when people generalize like this. I was once on the other end of the seniority issue, and got laid off myself, but just because you are experienced is no reason to assume you are taking up oxygen from the younger teachers. I am a significantly better teacher now than I was then.
Barbara, the original subject said that there are great veteran teachers, but surely you could admit there are teachers at every level that are not good at what they do, have grown tired, or have lost site of the big picture. Some have gotten so wrapped up in politics and drama it impacts their ability to serve students. Have you not seen any of that? The original entry was NOT a slam on veteran teachers , just bad ones that get to stay year after year after year because of the tenure rules.
ReplyDeleteI'm with Barbara. I'm hearing the slam in the poster's message. But, you know what they say about opinions...they are like as*h***s and everyone's got one. I think of an experience my child had with a teacher that had been elected "teacher of the year". One might think that year should have been one of the better years for my child. Nope! Worst educational experience out of thirteen years in school! Some people were of the opinion that this particular teacher was the ultimate and some thought that this teacher was just taking up oxygen and should be hitting the road! I couldn't go as far as saying the teacher was criminal for being a member of CTA/NEA however; that Republican rhetoric is just way off base. We'll just have to disagree on that comment.
ReplyDeleteBarbara, I'm with you. I wish you wouldn't retire because of public ignorance. I'd much rather have an experienced, senior teacher for my children, than an inexperienced temporary teacher. Many parents, including the school board, do not realize that if SB 955 passes California schools will be filled with inexperienced, temporary, teachers; teachers who have not yet made a commitment to the profession. Our children will suffer the consequences of have no safeguards to retain our experienced teachers. Young teachers have many other interests that distract from giving their all to the teaching profession. Before teachers are tenured they are Temporary, no contract, no commitment. A tenured teacher is simply a Permanent, and Professional teacher. I'd rather have a professional teaching my children.
ReplyDeleteLast in, First Out...."last in" only means the teacher is still in their 2-3 year evaluation period (what others job has a 2-3 year evaluation process!!!). Last in, is a temporary teacher. All temp workers, in any occupation, are the first out. Nothing new about this for any job anywhere.
Barbara, I'm with you. I wish you wouldn't retire because of public ignorance. I'd much rather have an experienced, senior teacher for my children, than an inexperienced temporary teacher. Many parents, including the school board, do not realize that if SB 955 passes California schools will be filled with inexperienced, temporary, teachers; teachers who have not yet made a commitment to the profession. Our children will suffer the consequences of have no safeguards to retain our experienced teachers. Young teachers have many other interests that distract from giving their all to the teaching profession. Before teachers are tenured they are Temporary, no contract, no commitment. A tenured teacher is simply a Permanent, and Professional teacher. I'd rather have a professional teaching my children.
ReplyDeleteLast in, First Out...."last in" only means the teacher is still in their 2-3 year evaluation period (what others job has a 2-3 year evaluation process!!!). Last in, is a temporary teacher. All temp workers, in any occupation, are the first out. Nothing new about this... for any job anywhere.
I wouldn't support it unless there was a fair and equitable way to determine which teachers to keep. Choosing one method, such as the current drive to evaluate teacher effectiveness on how well that teacher's students score on the STAR, is unjust. You wouldn't want your child's entire school year to be determined by a single test score.
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